Comments on: National Day of Action report back from Atlanta and Chatanooga http://understory.ran.org/2009/11/01/national-day-of-action-report-back-from-atlanta-and-chatanooga/ The Understory is the official blog of Rainforest Action Network. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 14:08:46 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: chris irwin http://understory.ran.org/2009/11/01/national-day-of-action-report-back-from-atlanta-and-chatanooga/comment-page-1/#comment-382466 chris irwin Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:05:36 +0000 http://understory.ran.org/?p=4703#comment-382466 Sorry JDW but to many of us have been on the "reclaimed" and active minesites for what you claim to have any credibility. I have seen hundreds of post mine sites--they all are grasslands. The failure rate of the wet weather conveyances is about 100%. Strip mining turns one of the most biologically diverse forest into the planet into a parkinglot. A pile of rubble is not a functioning hydrological system which developed over a billion years. I have seen in the New River the massive landslides resulting from post law mining 10/20/30 years later. I have have seen, videoed and shot high resolution photos of miles and miles of grasslands where once their were forest--littered with dying cedars and black locust. I have seen the giant pit behind Larry Gibsons land where once there was a mountain. In Claiborne County it looks like the area has been carpet bombed. On the country music highway in Kentucky the same. Our claims are easily substantiated with high resolution photos with GIS coordinates shot from both the ground and the air. We have taken thousands of people into the field who have seen it with their own eyes. Aquatic Biologist, Geologist, and dozens of other brands of scientist have verified and written entire papers about the truth we claim. Its the mining industry that ask us not to believe what we see with our own eyes. Your analogy of the patient being operated on would only be true if the surgeon ground the patient into hamburger meat--made a pile into Approximate Human Contour and claimed it was as good as before. You know where all those animals you claim to see go at night to shelter? The forest. You know where those animals go to eat? The forest. You see more animals in the day on those sites because they have no shelter. You may claim that your engineering is better than gods, that a billion year old mountain blown into rubble then piled back up is "better than before" and that the increase in stream temps, the heavy metals in the water, the cracked foundations, the dried wells, the bright orange streams are an illusion--but to many of us have seen it with our own eyes. Sorry JDW but to many of us have been on the “reclaimed” and active minesites for what you claim to have any credibility. I have seen hundreds of post mine sites–they all are grasslands. The failure rate of the wet weather conveyances is about 100%. Strip mining turns one of the most biologically diverse forest into the planet into a parkinglot. A pile of rubble is not a functioning hydrological system which developed over a billion years. I have seen in the New River the massive landslides resulting from post law mining 10/20/30 years later. I have have seen, videoed and shot high resolution photos of miles and miles of grasslands where once their were forest–littered with dying cedars and black locust. I have seen the giant pit behind Larry Gibsons land where once there was a mountain. In Claiborne County it looks like the area has been carpet bombed. On the country music highway in Kentucky the same. Our claims are easily substantiated with high resolution photos with GIS coordinates shot from both the ground and the air. We have taken thousands of people into the field who have seen it with their own eyes. Aquatic Biologist, Geologist, and dozens of other brands of scientist have verified and written entire papers about the truth we claim. Its the mining industry that ask us not to believe what we see with our own eyes. Your analogy of the patient being operated on would only be true if the surgeon ground the patient into hamburger meat–made a pile into Approximate Human Contour and claimed it was as good as before. You know where all those animals you claim to see go at night to shelter? The forest. You know where those animals go to eat? The forest. You see more animals in the day on those sites because they have no shelter.

You may claim that your engineering is better than gods, that a billion year old mountain blown into rubble then piled back up is “better than before” and that the increase in stream temps, the heavy metals in the water, the cracked foundations, the dried wells, the bright orange streams are an illusion–but to many of us have seen it with our own eyes.

]]> By: JDW http://understory.ran.org/2009/11/01/national-day-of-action-report-back-from-atlanta-and-chatanooga/comment-page-1/#comment-382428 JDW Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:25:01 +0000 http://understory.ran.org/?p=4703#comment-382428 Mountain strata is removed at most MTR mine sites. However, it is mostly put back to approximate original contour unless there is a valid post mining reason to leave the terrain flat (i.e. mining companies preparing right of way for the "King Coal Highway" across southern WV. You make it seem like pristine trout streams are being covered over which is not the case. The vast majority of the ephemral streams that get filled in are nothing more than the erosion ditches caused by logging at the turn of the century. I have called on mine sites as a part of my job for the past thirty years. I also traverse post mining sites that have been reclaimed 5, 10 ,15, 20, 25 years ago. Reclaimed mine sites are nothing like you describe. Nor are they the "moonscapes" some like to attribute to mine sites. Active mine sites are disruptive just as open heart surgery is disruptive. You wouldn't take a picture of an open heart surgery in progress and call it the result. The same is true of an activce mine site. I see more Elk, bear, deer, turkeys and other wildlife on reclaimed mine sites than I do anywhere else. As far as Coal Mountain is concerned. No one is going to lower the elevation by 800 feet. No mines in the Appalachian would do that. It would not be economical nor would it make sense. If the Coal River Site would be an ideal wind site, I suggest some of you form a corporation and buy the property and establish a wind farm. Before you do visit Thomas & Davis WV and the parts of Nebraska and Illinois already covered with wind farms. Finally keep in mind that removing all the overburden then extracting all the coal then putting the overburden back to approximate original contour is the least destructive form of mining. Contour, Highwall and underground mining squander a resource and leave behind a legacy to be dealt with by future generations. The valley fills that are necessary and can in fact improve water quality by slowing down the severe wash of water down mountain gulleys during severe storms. They work like a gigantic sponge to absorb runoff and allow it to slowly percolate downstream. Too many unsubstantiated claims are being made about mining by people with no first hand knowledge. The Rhetoric is reaching the "Chicken Little" stage. Mountain strata is removed at most MTR mine sites. However, it is mostly put back to approximate original contour unless there is a valid post mining reason to leave the terrain flat (i.e. mining companies preparing right of way for the “King Coal Highway” across southern WV. You make it seem like pristine trout streams are being covered over which is not the case. The vast majority of the ephemral streams that get filled in are nothing more than the erosion ditches caused by logging at the turn of the century. I have called on mine sites as a part of my job for the past thirty years. I also traverse post mining sites that have been reclaimed 5, 10 ,15, 20, 25 years ago. Reclaimed mine sites are nothing like you describe. Nor are they the “moonscapes” some like to attribute to mine sites. Active mine sites are disruptive just as open heart surgery is disruptive. You wouldn’t take a picture of an open heart surgery in progress and call it the result. The same is true of an activce mine site. I see more Elk, bear, deer, turkeys and other wildlife on reclaimed mine sites than I do anywhere else. As far as Coal Mountain is concerned. No one is going to lower the elevation by 800 feet. No mines in the Appalachian would do that. It would not be economical nor would it make sense. If the Coal River Site would be an ideal wind site, I suggest some of you form a corporation and buy the property and establish a wind farm. Before you do visit Thomas & Davis WV and the parts of Nebraska and Illinois already covered with wind farms. Finally keep in mind that removing all the overburden then extracting all the coal then putting the overburden back to approximate original contour is the least destructive form of mining. Contour, Highwall and underground mining squander a resource and leave behind a legacy to be dealt with by future generations. The valley fills that are necessary and can in fact improve water quality by slowing down the severe wash of water down mountain gulleys during severe storms. They work like a gigantic sponge to absorb runoff and allow it to slowly percolate downstream. Too many unsubstantiated claims are being made about mining by people with no first hand knowledge. The Rhetoric is reaching the “Chicken Little” stage.

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