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	<title>Comments on: Occupy the Amazon so as Not to Lose it—with Palm Oil</title>
	<atom:link href="http://understory.ran.org/2009/02/03/occupy-the-amazon-so-as-not-to-lose-it%e2%80%94with-palm-oil/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://understory.ran.org/2009/02/03/occupy-the-amazon-so-as-not-to-lose-it%e2%80%94with-palm-oil/</link>
	<description>The Understory is the official blog of Rainforest Action Network.</description>
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		<title>By: Becky Shops</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2009/02/03/occupy-the-amazon-so-as-not-to-lose-it%e2%80%94with-palm-oil/comment-page-1/#comment-334224</link>
		<dc:creator>Becky Shops</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 08:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/?p=2196#comment-334224</guid>
		<description>new at amazon this week.. another million books you might buy and will never read :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>new at amazon this week.. another million books you might buy and will never read :D</p>
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		<title>By: bodong</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2009/02/03/occupy-the-amazon-so-as-not-to-lose-it%e2%80%94with-palm-oil/comment-page-1/#comment-312496</link>
		<dc:creator>bodong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 06:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/?p=2196#comment-312496</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s talk by data: how large forest area in the US and Europe converted to corn, soy and canola? Use FAO and USDA data..... all you&#039;ll can see who&#039;s the GREED! after that, use data which countries more pollute to the air, and learn about Kyoto Protocol.... you&#039;ll find who&#039;s the GREED!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s talk by data: how large forest area in the US and Europe converted to corn, soy and canola? Use FAO and USDA data&#8230;.. all you&#8217;ll can see who&#8217;s the GREED! after that, use data which countries more pollute to the air, and learn about Kyoto Protocol&#8230;. you&#8217;ll find who&#8217;s the GREED!</p>
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		<title>By: Prescott Bergh</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2009/02/03/occupy-the-amazon-so-as-not-to-lose-it%e2%80%94with-palm-oil/comment-page-1/#comment-312143</link>
		<dc:creator>Prescott Bergh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 15:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/?p=2196#comment-312143</guid>
		<description>Per the question from Bonnie Alicia in Berkeley regarding bird species in this plantation: Biological monitoring of the flora and fauna of Agropalma lands is on-going and accomplished in cooperation with the University of Sao Paulo. Due to improved habitat management, the number of bird species has increased from 338 in 2003 to 406 in 2008, while the number of mammal species has increased from 27 to 37 over the same time frame. The golden parrot, the national bird of Brazil is one of the species that has been repatriated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Per the question from Bonnie Alicia in Berkeley regarding bird species in this plantation: Biological monitoring of the flora and fauna of Agropalma lands is on-going and accomplished in cooperation with the University of Sao Paulo. Due to improved habitat management, the number of bird species has increased from 338 in 2003 to 406 in 2008, while the number of mammal species has increased from 27 to 37 over the same time frame. The golden parrot, the national bird of Brazil is one of the species that has been repatriated.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Wall</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2009/02/03/occupy-the-amazon-so-as-not-to-lose-it%e2%80%94with-palm-oil/comment-page-1/#comment-301884</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Wall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 20:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/?p=2196#comment-301884</guid>
		<description>http://derekwalleuroelectioncampaign.blogspot.com/2009/02/green-fuel-kills.html is my thoughts on palm oil for biofuel in Colombia, its deadly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://derekwalleuroelectioncampaign.blogspot.com/2009/02/green-fuel-kills.html" rel="nofollow">http://derekwalleuroelectioncampaign.blogspot.com/2009/02/green-fuel-kills.html</a> is my thoughts on palm oil for biofuel in Colombia, its deadly.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Abramson</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2009/02/03/occupy-the-amazon-so-as-not-to-lose-it%e2%80%94with-palm-oil/comment-page-1/#comment-296811</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Abramson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/?p=2196#comment-296811</guid>
		<description>You hit the nail on the head brother. Now lets all go out and stimulate the economy with additional spending in an effort to lower the unemployment rate and improve our standard of living. After all we&#039;re all about increasing production right? Even if we produce things that no one needs, which of course leads to an increased effort to market those things, leading ultimately to an increased level of frustrated desire and unhappiness. 
The economy as it exists today is a ponzi scheme of the highest magnitude because it fails entirely to account for the eventual costs to our life support system. The planet can only invest so much for so long. When this tide runs out it will be shown that we are all swimming naked to no where-- that the things of real value have been missing for a long time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You hit the nail on the head brother. Now lets all go out and stimulate the economy with additional spending in an effort to lower the unemployment rate and improve our standard of living. After all we&#8217;re all about increasing production right? Even if we produce things that no one needs, which of course leads to an increased effort to market those things, leading ultimately to an increased level of frustrated desire and unhappiness.<br />
The economy as it exists today is a ponzi scheme of the highest magnitude because it fails entirely to account for the eventual costs to our life support system. The planet can only invest so much for so long. When this tide runs out it will be shown that we are all swimming naked to no where&#8211; that the things of real value have been missing for a long time.</p>
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		<title>By: bodong</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2009/02/03/occupy-the-amazon-so-as-not-to-lose-it%e2%80%94with-palm-oil/comment-page-1/#comment-296794</link>
		<dc:creator>bodong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/?p=2196#comment-296794</guid>
		<description>Some Reflections

Now, it is easy for the EU, the Wall Street Journal and the author to take pot shots at Malaysia and Indonesia for attempting to lift themselves up economically by cultivating palm oil for biofuels. In fact, the Malaysian Palm Oil Council issued a rebuttal to some topics reviewed in this story. And although some of it is ridiculous, it does point out obviously hypocritical things like this — 
Britain has little forest left, as most land has been converted to agriculture. Such a paucity of forest cover and the preponderance of agricultural land have resulted in reduced biodiversity and caused the loss of fauna and flora. 
According to data from the Food and Agriculture Organisation, Britain has less than 12 per cent of its land under forest cover compared with 64 per cent for Malaysia. Agricultural land makes up 71 per cent of its total land area compared with less than 19 per cent in Malaysia, of which oil palm accounts for two-thirds. 
In the 19th century, Europeans were despoiling southeast Asia for the rubber and timber trades. From the WSJ, peaking of Borneo — 
In the 1800s, Dutch and British traders began carving up parts of the island to produce rubber and other commodities. Later, Malaysian and Indonesian timber barons devastated millions of hectares of forest logging tropical hardwoods. Today, only a little more than half of Borneo&#039;s once-ubiquitous rain-forest cover remains, according to WWF, the global conservation organization. 
As a citizen of the United States — the world&#039;s largest natural resource consumer driving much of the planet&#039;s freefall — and largest abuser of the global commons, which is the environment upon which we all ultimately depend, I must add this apologetic to my criticisms of land use practices in southeast Asia. After all, people are just trying to feed themselves, raise their families and prosper economically as far as that is possible. Quoting the WSJ concerning Indonesia, &quot;the arrival of new palm-oil plantations has meant jobs and opportunities for many Dayak families [of Kalimantan], and some have even taken ownership stakes in the operations.&quot; There are environmentalists in southeast Asia just as there are here among the NGOs in America — I have quoted some of them. At the same time, John Q. Suburban in the United States is just trying to feed himself, raise his family and prosper economically as far as that is possible. 
So, in the short run, some will win, some will lose and everyone wants to live. Over the longer term, however, the underlying problem is too many people (wherever they live) consuming too much energy and other natural resources. Overshoot and unsustainable modes of living are not confined to southeast Asia, as any American should know. 
Dave Cohen 
Senior Contributor 
The Oil Drum 
davec @ linkvoyager.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some Reflections</p>
<p>Now, it is easy for the EU, the Wall Street Journal and the author to take pot shots at Malaysia and Indonesia for attempting to lift themselves up economically by cultivating palm oil for biofuels. In fact, the Malaysian Palm Oil Council issued a rebuttal to some topics reviewed in this story. And although some of it is ridiculous, it does point out obviously hypocritical things like this —<br />
Britain has little forest left, as most land has been converted to agriculture. Such a paucity of forest cover and the preponderance of agricultural land have resulted in reduced biodiversity and caused the loss of fauna and flora.<br />
According to data from the Food and Agriculture Organisation, Britain has less than 12 per cent of its land under forest cover compared with 64 per cent for Malaysia. Agricultural land makes up 71 per cent of its total land area compared with less than 19 per cent in Malaysia, of which oil palm accounts for two-thirds.<br />
In the 19th century, Europeans were despoiling southeast Asia for the rubber and timber trades. From the WSJ, peaking of Borneo —<br />
In the 1800s, Dutch and British traders began carving up parts of the island to produce rubber and other commodities. Later, Malaysian and Indonesian timber barons devastated millions of hectares of forest logging tropical hardwoods. Today, only a little more than half of Borneo&#8217;s once-ubiquitous rain-forest cover remains, according to WWF, the global conservation organization.<br />
As a citizen of the United States — the world&#8217;s largest natural resource consumer driving much of the planet&#8217;s freefall — and largest abuser of the global commons, which is the environment upon which we all ultimately depend, I must add this apologetic to my criticisms of land use practices in southeast Asia. After all, people are just trying to feed themselves, raise their families and prosper economically as far as that is possible. Quoting the WSJ concerning Indonesia, &#8220;the arrival of new palm-oil plantations has meant jobs and opportunities for many Dayak families [of Kalimantan], and some have even taken ownership stakes in the operations.&#8221; There are environmentalists in southeast Asia just as there are here among the NGOs in America — I have quoted some of them. At the same time, John Q. Suburban in the United States is just trying to feed himself, raise his family and prosper economically as far as that is possible.<br />
So, in the short run, some will win, some will lose and everyone wants to live. Over the longer term, however, the underlying problem is too many people (wherever they live) consuming too much energy and other natural resources. Overshoot and unsustainable modes of living are not confined to southeast Asia, as any American should know.<br />
Dave Cohen<br />
Senior Contributor<br />
The Oil Drum<br />
davec @ linkvoyager.com</p>
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		<title>By: Errin</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2009/02/03/occupy-the-amazon-so-as-not-to-lose-it%e2%80%94with-palm-oil/comment-page-1/#comment-296036</link>
		<dc:creator>Errin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 03:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/?p=2196#comment-296036</guid>
		<description>Why are there all of these palm plantations?  Why did Brazil enact these tax incentives?  Ask the WTO and World Bank.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why are there all of these palm plantations?  Why did Brazil enact these tax incentives?  Ask the WTO and World Bank.</p>
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		<title>By: Bonnie Alicia  Berkeley</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2009/02/03/occupy-the-amazon-so-as-not-to-lose-it%e2%80%94with-palm-oil/comment-page-1/#comment-295770</link>
		<dc:creator>Bonnie Alicia  Berkeley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 16:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/?p=2196#comment-295770</guid>
		<description>Are there any parrots in the palms?   Does this monoculture support any wildlife
at all?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are there any parrots in the palms?   Does this monoculture support any wildlife<br />
at all?</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth Ackman</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2009/02/03/occupy-the-amazon-so-as-not-to-lose-it%e2%80%94with-palm-oil/comment-page-1/#comment-295453</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth Ackman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 22:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/?p=2196#comment-295453</guid>
		<description>Thank you for this information. I went to Brazil in 2005, and was appalled at the destruction of the rainforest along the Amazon River. If we do not all work together to stop this massive destruction of the world&#039;s rainforests, we will not have clean air to breath. The last information I received, was that the world&#039;s rainforests were disapperaing at a rate of 8 acres per second. This is horrible, and all in the name of GREED!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for this information. I went to Brazil in 2005, and was appalled at the destruction of the rainforest along the Amazon River. If we do not all work together to stop this massive destruction of the world&#8217;s rainforests, we will not have clean air to breath. The last information I received, was that the world&#8217;s rainforests were disapperaing at a rate of 8 acres per second. This is horrible, and all in the name of GREED!</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel Smolker</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2009/02/03/occupy-the-amazon-so-as-not-to-lose-it%e2%80%94with-palm-oil/comment-page-1/#comment-294440</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Smolker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/?p=2196#comment-294440</guid>
		<description>So was there no other answer to the question about &quot;why plant on the worst soils in the world?&quot; Seems like that and the long time it takes to establish may be the only things holding back massive further PO in Amazon? (but soon we will be using biochar to enrich amazon soils and anything will be possible...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So was there no other answer to the question about &#8220;why plant on the worst soils in the world?&#8221; Seems like that and the long time it takes to establish may be the only things holding back massive further PO in Amazon? (but soon we will be using biochar to enrich amazon soils and anything will be possible&#8230;)</p>
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