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	<title>Comments on: Climate Youth Movement Converges on Powershift, then Citibank</title>
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	<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/</link>
	<description>The Understory is the official blog of Rainforest Action Network.</description>
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		<title>By: Uncle Harley</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/comment-page-1/#comment-142614</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Harley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 04:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/#comment-142614</guid>
		<description>Heh - sorry.  That was a bit snarky of me, and it really wasn&#039;t called for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh &#8211; sorry.  That was a bit snarky of me, and it really wasn&#8217;t called for.</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/comment-page-1/#comment-142457</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:06:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/#comment-142457</guid>
		<description>We appreciate the concern, but we know how to handle ourselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We appreciate the concern, but we know how to handle ourselves.</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Harley</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/comment-page-1/#comment-142455</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Harley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/#comment-142455</guid>
		<description>Oh behave!!  ;-)  Go directly to the principal&#039;s office.  Do not pass the cafeteria.  Do not stop at the student lounge.  When you get there, bend over and grab your ankles.  Someone will be along shortly to administer the corporal punishment you&#039;re attention needs so stridently demand.  ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh behave!!  ;-)  Go directly to the principal&#8217;s office.  Do not pass the cafeteria.  Do not stop at the student lounge.  When you get there, bend over and grab your ankles.  Someone will be along shortly to administer the corporal punishment you&#8217;re attention needs so stridently demand.  ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: Citibank shut down! &#171; praxis makes perfect.</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/comment-page-1/#comment-142378</link>
		<dc:creator>Citibank shut down! &#171; praxis makes perfect.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 18:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/#comment-142378</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8230;and articles on grist, seac&#8217;s blog, and the understory [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8230;and articles on grist, seac&#8217;s blog, and the understory [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Terry</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/comment-page-1/#comment-141830</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/#comment-141830</guid>
		<description>Luke, I respectfully disagree that our biggest disconnect is legalistic.  What is legal is only one measure of your greater normative environment, and it is scarcely the most poignant issue I&#039;ve raised. 

Thanks for admitting that you operate completely within your own anomic, normative bubble.    But I would caution you not to confuse what RAN&#039;s ethical/moral code is with that of larger society, because the social-psychological weight and inertia of the latter, as reflected in the larger discretion of judges and juries, will eventually crush you if you continue to skirt its boundaries.  That&#039;s why I mentioned consulting with a disinterested civil rights expert like Avery S. Friedman.  Someone with his background can put it all into perspective for you.  I only keep mentioning the justice system because, although people like me can withdraw our support for RAN, the former will eventually bring you into line through the long reach of due process of law,  whether it be civil, criminal, equitable or administrative in nature, should you continue to flout it.

Since you mention it, ethics (much like logic) is an entire branch of philosophy that is guided by norms and mores that originate &lt;i&gt;outside&lt;/i&gt; of RAN, too.  

Consider and balance the interests of &lt;b&gt;all&lt;/b&gt; who are affected by your actions.  

Thanks for contributing to the intellectual diversity of my retirement, regardless of how banal it may appear.

Now, if you&#039;ll excuse me, I need to strategize about how I&#039;m going to snatch some petty little punk through his backside for skimming my gratuities with a heavy hand.  

____________________________________________________

P.S.:  I like your independent attitude, but you can&#039;t ignore the fact that pay backs &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; a bitch.  Please don&#039;t think I&#039;m not empathetic about the backlash you have to deal with.  Even though I take a perverse enjoyment in Larry Flint&#039;s exposés, I&#039;ve had to put up with the sex industry&#039;s amateurish antics over some bogus business interruption claims I put the spotlight on, and I&#039;ve had to deal with a bunch of ethnic-based crime organizations for squelching their rent-a-patient scams.  Actually, when it comes to big money being laundered through legitimate investments, at some level all these crooks sleep in the same bed; the beast is more like a multi-headed hydra.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Luke, I respectfully disagree that our biggest disconnect is legalistic.  What is legal is only one measure of your greater normative environment, and it is scarcely the most poignant issue I&#8217;ve raised. </p>
<p>Thanks for admitting that you operate completely within your own anomic, normative bubble.    But I would caution you not to confuse what RAN&#8217;s ethical/moral code is with that of larger society, because the social-psychological weight and inertia of the latter, as reflected in the larger discretion of judges and juries, will eventually crush you if you continue to skirt its boundaries.  That&#8217;s why I mentioned consulting with a disinterested civil rights expert like Avery S. Friedman.  Someone with his background can put it all into perspective for you.  I only keep mentioning the justice system because, although people like me can withdraw our support for RAN, the former will eventually bring you into line through the long reach of due process of law,  whether it be civil, criminal, equitable or administrative in nature, should you continue to flout it.</p>
<p>Since you mention it, ethics (much like logic) is an entire branch of philosophy that is guided by norms and mores that originate <i>outside</i> of RAN, too.  </p>
<p>Consider and balance the interests of <b>all</b> who are affected by your actions.  </p>
<p>Thanks for contributing to the intellectual diversity of my retirement, regardless of how banal it may appear.</p>
<p>Now, if you&#8217;ll excuse me, I need to strategize about how I&#8217;m going to snatch some petty little punk through his backside for skimming my gratuities with a heavy hand.  </p>
<p>____________________________________________________</p>
<p>P.S.:  I like your independent attitude, but you can&#8217;t ignore the fact that pay backs <i>are</i> a bitch.  Please don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m not empathetic about the backlash you have to deal with.  Even though I take a perverse enjoyment in Larry Flint&#8217;s exposés, I&#8217;ve had to put up with the sex industry&#8217;s amateurish antics over some bogus business interruption claims I put the spotlight on, and I&#8217;ve had to deal with a bunch of ethnic-based crime organizations for squelching their rent-a-patient scams.  Actually, when it comes to big money being laundered through legitimate investments, at some level all these crooks sleep in the same bed; the beast is more like a multi-headed hydra.</p>
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		<title>By: It&#8217;s Not Too Late, Join the National Day of Action Against Coal Finance &#171; It&#8217;s Getting Hot In Here</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/comment-page-1/#comment-141810</link>
		<dc:creator>It&#8217;s Not Too Late, Join the National Day of Action Against Coal Finance &#171; It&#8217;s Getting Hot In Here</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/#comment-141810</guid>
		<description>[...] and campuses are scheduled to have a multitude of actions from coast to coast. From cough-in’s and die-in’s to bank visits by polar bears and the billionaires for coal, the twin giants of coal finance [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and campuses are scheduled to have a multitude of actions from coast to coast. From cough-in’s and die-in’s to bank visits by polar bears and the billionaires for coal, the twin giants of coal finance [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/comment-page-1/#comment-141697</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/#comment-141697</guid>
		<description>I think that the biggest disconnect here, Terry, is your focus on legality/legalism. Be careful not to confuse what is legal with what is right. Sure, the First Amendment only goes so far and may not cover things like hanging banners off of cranes. Basically, we don&#039;t care. Citi funds totally legal coal projects that are destroying communities and the global environment. In contrast, we sometimes cause minor disruptions to their business. There is no moral comparison. 

We operate by our own non-violent ethical code. When governments and industry refuse to take responsibility, who will hold them accountable? Groups like NRDC do great work in the courts; we work in the streets. Given the stakes, both approaches are more than justified.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the biggest disconnect here, Terry, is your focus on legality/legalism. Be careful not to confuse what is legal with what is right. Sure, the First Amendment only goes so far and may not cover things like hanging banners off of cranes. Basically, we don&#8217;t care. Citi funds totally legal coal projects that are destroying communities and the global environment. In contrast, we sometimes cause minor disruptions to their business. There is no moral comparison. </p>
<p>We operate by our own non-violent ethical code. When governments and industry refuse to take responsibility, who will hold them accountable? Groups like NRDC do great work in the courts; we work in the streets. Given the stakes, both approaches are more than justified.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/comment-page-1/#comment-141685</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/#comment-141685</guid>
		<description>Whoops, sorry about all the bold type-face. Only the word &quot;my&quot; was supposed to be highlighted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoops, sorry about all the bold type-face. Only the word &#8220;my&#8221; was supposed to be highlighted.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/comment-page-1/#comment-141684</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 16:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/#comment-141684</guid>
		<description>LOL, Dude/dudette, delve a little deeper into my blog and you&#039;ll see that I take on all sectors and persuasions without bias.  The position closest to law enforcement that I ever occupied was a week-end warrior stint as a military policeman.  Needless to say, I&#039;m too independent to fit in well with formalized power hierarchies.  More to your point, I adjusted tort claims and casualty litigation for the &quot;evil empire&quot; for ~ 18 years, until I had to take down a few unsavory characters in their cast, including a regional vice-president, a senior defense firm partner, and a sister insurer under the same corporate umbrella.  I also circumvented a judge&#039;s shenanigans in trying to scuttle a case and hang the damages tab around my policyholder&#039;s neck.  Needless to say, I&#039;m too independent to fit in well with formalized power hierarchies. 

You know what?  This culture is evolving a let&#039;s-see-what-we can-get-away-with&quot;-ethos, and now I&#039;m just happy to deliver sandwiches and live on my litigation settlements.

Don&#039;t be so paranoid.  I&#039;m not the one who&#039;s obsessed. I signed a bunch of your petitions and supported your symbolic demonstrations up until you guys crossed the line with barricading Citi&#039;s doors.  In fact, I thought scaling that crane and hanging a banner off of it was downright gutsy.  But I&#039;m not just going to let you tap dance around the issue and think you&#039;re going to bamboozle me into going away.  

To be fair, if someone built a coal-fired power plant and spewed fossil fuel effluent into &lt;b&gt;my&lt;/b&gt;&lt;b&gt; backyard (thus imperiling my health and property value), I would get medieval on their cases too, and barricading their doors would be the least of their concerns.  But I&#039;m neither going to interfere in the banking transactions of their financiers customers, nor force their tellers and clerks to leave work early.

Get a sense of perspective and proportionality, and step outside of your self-centered perception of your own self-importance.  I doubt I&#039;m alone in how others see you.  I&#039;m just a more vocal representative of people who believe that First Amendment causes have their legitimate limitations and boundaries.&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL, Dude/dudette, delve a little deeper into my blog and you&#8217;ll see that I take on all sectors and persuasions without bias.  The position closest to law enforcement that I ever occupied was a week-end warrior stint as a military policeman.  Needless to say, I&#8217;m too independent to fit in well with formalized power hierarchies.  More to your point, I adjusted tort claims and casualty litigation for the &#8220;evil empire&#8221; for ~ 18 years, until I had to take down a few unsavory characters in their cast, including a regional vice-president, a senior defense firm partner, and a sister insurer under the same corporate umbrella.  I also circumvented a judge&#8217;s shenanigans in trying to scuttle a case and hang the damages tab around my policyholder&#8217;s neck.  Needless to say, I&#8217;m too independent to fit in well with formalized power hierarchies. </p>
<p>You know what?  This culture is evolving a let&#8217;s-see-what-we can-get-away-with&#8221;-ethos, and now I&#8217;m just happy to deliver sandwiches and live on my litigation settlements.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t be so paranoid.  I&#8217;m not the one who&#8217;s obsessed. I signed a bunch of your petitions and supported your symbolic demonstrations up until you guys crossed the line with barricading Citi&#8217;s doors.  In fact, I thought scaling that crane and hanging a banner off of it was downright gutsy.  But I&#8217;m not just going to let you tap dance around the issue and think you&#8217;re going to bamboozle me into going away.  </p>
<p>To be fair, if someone built a coal-fired power plant and spewed fossil fuel effluent into <b>my</b><b> backyard (thus imperiling my health and property value), I would get medieval on their cases too, and barricading their doors would be the least of their concerns.  But I&#8217;m neither going to interfere in the banking transactions of their financiers customers, nor force their tellers and clerks to leave work early.</p>
<p>Get a sense of perspective and proportionality, and step outside of your self-centered perception of your own self-importance.  I doubt I&#8217;m alone in how others see you.  I&#8217;m just a more vocal representative of people who believe that First Amendment causes have their legitimate limitations and boundaries.</b></p>
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		<title>By: sparki</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/comment-page-1/#comment-141474</link>
		<dc:creator>sparki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 08:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/2007/11/05/climate-youth-movement-convergences-on-powershift-then-citibank/#comment-141474</guid>
		<description>Terry-  you seem pretty obsessed with portraying us as criminals and terrorists, despite the fact we have never come close to what you accuse us of doing or supporting.  

Are you a police officer, a former police officer or merely a private security agent?  I kind of feel like I am conversing with an agent of the state when I read your posts.  Looking at your myspace profile a bit closer, I see your background is a law enforcement background.  

Tell me, who are you working for? Which government or corporate entity that will &quot;mess us up&quot; pays your rent?

Inquiring minds want to know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terry-  you seem pretty obsessed with portraying us as criminals and terrorists, despite the fact we have never come close to what you accuse us of doing or supporting.  </p>
<p>Are you a police officer, a former police officer or merely a private security agent?  I kind of feel like I am conversing with an agent of the state when I read your posts.  Looking at your myspace profile a bit closer, I see your background is a law enforcement background.  </p>
<p>Tell me, who are you working for? Which government or corporate entity that will &#8220;mess us up&#8221; pays your rent?</p>
<p>Inquiring minds want to know.</p>
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