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	<title>Comments on: No Coal! No Nukes! Not Kidding! (Climate Activists Lockdown in Asheville)</title>
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	<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/</link>
	<description>The Understory is the official blog of Rainforest Action Network.</description>
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		<title>By: The Understory &#187; No End in Sight for Citi and Bank of America</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/comment-page-1/#comment-131348</link>
		<dc:creator>The Understory &#187; No End in Sight for Citi and Bank of America</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 06:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/#comment-131348</guid>
		<description>[...] movements. At Bank of America&#8217;s regional office in Asheville NC, Rising Tide activists locked themselves together in protest of the bank&#8217;s coal investments. A few weeks later, Mountain Justice [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] movements. At Bank of America&#8217;s regional office in Asheville NC, Rising Tide activists locked themselves together in protest of the bank&#8217;s coal investments. A few weeks later, Mountain Justice [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stan</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/comment-page-1/#comment-116955</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/#comment-116955</guid>
		<description>Don, actually a &lt;a href=&quot;http://uwnews.washington.edu/ni/article.asp?articleID=5271&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;study released back in 2004&lt;/a&gt; from the University of Washington found the opposite. The researcher, a Doctoral Candidate in Sociology, found that &quot;each protest event that occurs in a given year increas[es] the number of pro-environmental bills passed by about 2.2 percent ... working from the inside has not had much of an impact.&quot;

This is only in the legislative sphere, pertaining to whether or not bills get passed, but I think RAN&#039;s work speaks for itself in the corporate arena. Citi, Bank of America, and JPMorgan Chase all agreed to sit down with RAN to craft environmental policies due to our actions at their branches (though we do use lots of other tactics as well).

In fact, since we&#039;ve dressed as monkeys, dinosaurs, 18th century statesmen, barbecue chefs, and even hazardous material workers, a running joke around the office is that the sillier the costume, the better the policy we get.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don, actually a <a href="http://uwnews.washington.edu/ni/article.asp?articleID=5271" rel="nofollow">study released back in 2004</a> from the University of Washington found the opposite. The researcher, a Doctoral Candidate in Sociology, found that &#8220;each protest event that occurs in a given year increas[es] the number of pro-environmental bills passed by about 2.2 percent &#8230; working from the inside has not had much of an impact.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is only in the legislative sphere, pertaining to whether or not bills get passed, but I think RAN&#8217;s work speaks for itself in the corporate arena. Citi, Bank of America, and JPMorgan Chase all agreed to sit down with RAN to craft environmental policies due to our actions at their branches (though we do use lots of other tactics as well).</p>
<p>In fact, since we&#8217;ve dressed as monkeys, dinosaurs, 18th century statesmen, barbecue chefs, and even hazardous material workers, a running joke around the office is that the sillier the costume, the better the policy we get.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Talley</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/comment-page-1/#comment-116951</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Talley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 20:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/#comment-116951</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your response Luke...
I challenge you to study the history of the Environmental movement.   Dressing up in costumes and closing down branch banks has NEVER forced ANYONE to &quot;bring their behavior in line with the values of their customers&quot;.  
I agree with your goal of changing behavior of the power structures that exist....but why use failed strategies that everyone else abandoned 30 years ago????
Why not actually create solutions?
Why not THINK about the ultimate impact of publicity stunts and whether they have any chance of creating solutions?
Other environmentalists and environmental groups around the globe have learned from the past how to be effective.  We can&#039;t afford to waste time dressing up and playing games.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your response Luke&#8230;<br />
I challenge you to study the history of the Environmental movement.   Dressing up in costumes and closing down branch banks has NEVER forced ANYONE to &#8220;bring their behavior in line with the values of their customers&#8221;.<br />
I agree with your goal of changing behavior of the power structures that exist&#8230;.but why use failed strategies that everyone else abandoned 30 years ago????<br />
Why not actually create solutions?<br />
Why not THINK about the ultimate impact of publicity stunts and whether they have any chance of creating solutions?<br />
Other environmentalists and environmental groups around the globe have learned from the past how to be effective.  We can&#8217;t afford to waste time dressing up and playing games.</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/comment-page-1/#comment-116927</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 16:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/#comment-116927</guid>
		<description>Don: it&#039;s not for lack of solutions that banks continue to fund destructive industry. It&#039;s for lack of will. Until we force them to bring their behavior in line with the values of their customers, no amount of &quot;THINK!!!!!&quot;-ing will solve the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don: it&#8217;s not for lack of solutions that banks continue to fund destructive industry. It&#8217;s for lack of will. Until we force them to bring their behavior in line with the values of their customers, no amount of &#8220;THINK!!!!!&#8221;-ing will solve the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Talley</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/comment-page-1/#comment-116926</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Talley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 16:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/#comment-116926</guid>
		<description>Real solutions to environmental problems will never take place by poorly planned publicity stunts.....and in fact such self-serving stunts actually intefere with the great work being done by thousands of environmental groups with long records of success.   
Environmentally concerned citizens around the global are joining TOGETHER to creat SOLUTIONS to the problem by creating energy alternatives.
The 1970&#039;s ended over 25 years ago......dressing in costumes and shutting down public access to local banks actually works AGAINST real solutions.
I challenge this organization to take off their bear suits, take off their canary costumes, and GET TO WORK to solve our problems.
Change results from years of hard work...not hollerin at the power structures.
THINK!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Real solutions to environmental problems will never take place by poorly planned publicity stunts&#8230;..and in fact such self-serving stunts actually intefere with the great work being done by thousands of environmental groups with long records of success.<br />
Environmentally concerned citizens around the global are joining TOGETHER to creat SOLUTIONS to the problem by creating energy alternatives.<br />
The 1970&#8217;s ended over 25 years ago&#8230;&#8230;dressing in costumes and shutting down public access to local banks actually works AGAINST real solutions.<br />
I challenge this organization to take off their bear suits, take off their canary costumes, and GET TO WORK to solve our problems.<br />
Change results from years of hard work&#8230;not hollerin at the power structures.<br />
THINK!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Luke</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/comment-page-1/#comment-116923</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 16:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/#comment-116923</guid>
		<description>Working with labor, encouraging investment in green technology, and creating jobs in a sustainable economy are all part of RAN&#039;s strategy as an organization. You might be right that we don&#039;t say it loud enough, but keep watching.

You&#039;re certainly correct that there is a cost associated with coal abatement. It will cost money to transition workers away from work in destructive industries, and it&#039;s not clear who will pay for it (my vote: tax carbon and fund a hefty rebate to people in coal-affected communities). But that cost doesn&#039;t go away if we stick with the status quo; in fact, it grows. Who pays if we continue pumping carbon into the atmosphere and destroy our own habitat? Future generations do, many times over, most in communities that are even worse off than coal towns in the United States. Furthermore, almost all of the money made by allowing the coal economy to continue will line the pockets of investors. Allowing coal pollution to continue would be a costly and ineffective way to help the communities that you&#039;re concerned about, not to mention the fact that &lt;em&gt;they&#039;d still be working in a coal mine&lt;/em&gt;.

It&#039;s not OK to maintain the status quo until we come up with something better, and the coal industry won&#039;t spontaneously disappear if other kinds of economic development occur in coal-affected communities (although there&#039;s a lot of reason to believe that resource extraction actually inhibits long-term development). Keeping coal on life support until it&#039;s convenient to switch to something else is like taking out a loan against the welfare of our children. Like a sub-prime borrower, you&#039;re eying the low, low introductory rate (keeping the coal industry wheezing along through subsidies and lax environmental policy) and betting that your children and grandchildren will have a way to handle things when the shit hits the fan a couple decades down the line. But unlike with the current mortgage slump, when we default on our debt to the climate, the balance will be extracted from us in human suffering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Working with labor, encouraging investment in green technology, and creating jobs in a sustainable economy are all part of RAN&#8217;s strategy as an organization. You might be right that we don&#8217;t say it loud enough, but keep watching.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re certainly correct that there is a cost associated with coal abatement. It will cost money to transition workers away from work in destructive industries, and it&#8217;s not clear who will pay for it (my vote: tax carbon and fund a hefty rebate to people in coal-affected communities). But that cost doesn&#8217;t go away if we stick with the status quo; in fact, it grows. Who pays if we continue pumping carbon into the atmosphere and destroy our own habitat? Future generations do, many times over, most in communities that are even worse off than coal towns in the United States. Furthermore, almost all of the money made by allowing the coal economy to continue will line the pockets of investors. Allowing coal pollution to continue would be a costly and ineffective way to help the communities that you&#8217;re concerned about, not to mention the fact that <em>they&#8217;d still be working in a coal mine</em>.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not OK to maintain the status quo until we come up with something better, and the coal industry won&#8217;t spontaneously disappear if other kinds of economic development occur in coal-affected communities (although there&#8217;s a lot of reason to believe that resource extraction actually inhibits long-term development). Keeping coal on life support until it&#8217;s convenient to switch to something else is like taking out a loan against the welfare of our children. Like a sub-prime borrower, you&#8217;re eying the low, low introductory rate (keeping the coal industry wheezing along through subsidies and lax environmental policy) and betting that your children and grandchildren will have a way to handle things when the shit hits the fan a couple decades down the line. But unlike with the current mortgage slump, when we default on our debt to the climate, the balance will be extracted from us in human suffering.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/comment-page-1/#comment-116865</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 04:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>See, Kevin gets it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, Kevin gets it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/comment-page-1/#comment-116807</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/#comment-116807</guid>
		<description>What happens in these communities is what happens all over the world when businesses close, people lose their jobs, and there&#039;s no alternative in place.

They move to the city (or the &quot;ex-urbs&quot;) and become the landless poor or they stay and engage in the drug trade, most often meth and weed.  In Humboldt County, California this has gone on for decades, with outsiders from Colombia now controlling the drug trade and bringing in a heavy culture of violence.

The point is, you can&#039;t shut down the coal mines and not (loudly and clearly) propose real alternatives  to coal mining at the same time.  You will lose whatever real sympathy you deserve and at the same time damage the cause.

You&#039;d better serve the mountains, forests, and trees by bringing non-poluting industries to the mountain communities.  

Unfortunately of course, that requires being part of the capitalist system most deadheads and pseudo-punks who make up your support network claim to rail against.

But you can&#039;t have it both ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What happens in these communities is what happens all over the world when businesses close, people lose their jobs, and there&#8217;s no alternative in place.</p>
<p>They move to the city (or the &#8220;ex-urbs&#8221;) and become the landless poor or they stay and engage in the drug trade, most often meth and weed.  In Humboldt County, California this has gone on for decades, with outsiders from Colombia now controlling the drug trade and bringing in a heavy culture of violence.</p>
<p>The point is, you can&#8217;t shut down the coal mines and not (loudly and clearly) propose real alternatives  to coal mining at the same time.  You will lose whatever real sympathy you deserve and at the same time damage the cause.</p>
<p>You&#8217;d better serve the mountains, forests, and trees by bringing non-poluting industries to the mountain communities.  </p>
<p>Unfortunately of course, that requires being part of the capitalist system most deadheads and pseudo-punks who make up your support network claim to rail against.</p>
<p>But you can&#8217;t have it both ways.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/comment-page-1/#comment-116705</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 07:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/#comment-116705</guid>
		<description>Oh, P.S. about the polar bears, yeah, I got it. I just think it&#039;s a little ridiculous... don&#039;t you think comparing it to the Boston Tea Party, Martin Luther King and Cesar Chavez is a bit of a stretch?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, P.S. about the polar bears, yeah, I got it. I just think it&#8217;s a little ridiculous&#8230; don&#8217;t you think comparing it to the Boston Tea Party, Martin Luther King and Cesar Chavez is a bit of a stretch?</p>
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		<title>By: Seth</title>
		<link>http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/comment-page-1/#comment-116704</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 07:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://understory.ran.org/2007/08/13/no-coal-no-nukes-no-kidding-climate-activists-lockdown-in-asheville/#comment-116704</guid>
		<description>Thanks spark, you&#039;ve given me a few things to think about. You still have to remember that, despite what coal companies have done in the past, many people must rely on the industry. I was just wondering what jobs you think will be available in these areas after you&#039;ve closed all the mines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks spark, you&#8217;ve given me a few things to think about. You still have to remember that, despite what coal companies have done in the past, many people must rely on the industry. I was just wondering what jobs you think will be available in these areas after you&#8217;ve closed all the mines.</p>
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